Ok -

Figured it might be time for a single thread regarding the "Race ECU" (Officially called the "Closed-Course Competition ECU" ) to discuss availability, capabilities, ins/outs, does this/doesn't do that and all etc involved.

I, for one, started thinking about this little puppy on the way home from work tonight. I was thinking that 8.5 Franklins is mega-coin to spend to remove a speed-governor. I was also thinking that I doubt the stock replacement ECU (although technically it's an ECM )costs $850. This is quite the quandry.

Now I start to feel all giddy inside. Maybe ... just MAYBE ... this is a true "Race ECU" - meaning it is fully open to program, or at least is FULLY learning. What if you can get this ECU, install wideband 02 sensors, and it has full read capabilities from the wideband 02 data?

The basis for this assertation is not without merit. In the 2009 Star accesory catalog, it states specifically that this is for closed-course competition only. There is simply no reason to state this if it merely replaces a speed-limiter; statements such as these are for EPA regulations (granted, there may be merit to the DOT for tire limitations but Mr. Max is shod as "Z" rated). One can argue that there are emission problems in 4th and 5th gears - at the specific RPM's that are retarded. I'll say ... "Really? Whatever you say then ..."

Maybe I am looking through rose-colored glasses. I am also well aware that there will be responses that I am COMPLETELY off-base from people that will never buy this accessory (or have a clue regarding electronic a/f management in an engine)- and I say to them:

Why ruin a dream!?!?!?!

One would think that the $850 means something more than opening up a governor ....

Thoughts, comments, brilliant statements?

Rich

P.S. - Happy 2009 - The year "Bad-A$$ Motorcyle" was redefined...

Well, Yamaha is gouging us @$850, especially when the actual parts to build their little black box is under $10. I do have a techie friend that swears he can dump anything, and we've considered buying one to "dump" the contents of the chip. He also is a software engineer, and could easily write the flash software to facilitate a reprograming of a stock ECU with the "dump" from the race ECU. Downside of all this is there's only a relatively small amount of people who would want such a service.

IMO, A speedo healer & pc would be a better investment, at approx. 1/2 the doh

Not sure how you know that their cost to build is $10 but I'll say ... build me one! Of course I'll counter with the following:

Yeah .... and?

No offense man but all you've done is reiterate the obvious. The obvious being - "It is the same ECU that just removes the timing retard". Care to address my assertions on why it isn't that?

(Again - no offense) Sounds like your "friend" is not all that well versed in engine management. Everything can be dumped - flashing back to the stock ECU requires intimate knowledge of the ENTIRE engine management code ... and I mean you better know what that ECU wants delivered the next day (flowers? ... chocolates? ... merely a phone call?)

What your missing here is that the EEPROM for the read data on the stock ECU is limited to input from the narrow-band 02 sensor. It takes that input and adjusts values accordingly. It has very limited registers on where this data resides, and it is almost impossible to manipulate ANY stock ECM for large changes in air intake volume. There is nothing new here - the Vmax uses a closed-loop FI system just like every other FI engine on the market. If it were as easy as writing code, then Dynojet would never have developed the PC-xxx line of fuel-controllers, they simply would have flashed the stock ECU and been done with it. I'm sure your friend has the skinny on all the original Vmax schematics and code though.

$850 is certainly more in-line with the cost of a "custom" (read - fully programmable) ECU. If you want to offer ideas on why Star would offer the EXACT same ECU without retard for $850 dollars - then that is the point of this thread.

However - I would counter that if that were the case, Star would sell exactly the same number of units required for the community to figure that out. My guess would be less than 50.

There still remains something very "interesting" regarding this ECU.

P. S. - The connectors alone on the stock ECU costs more than $10

That would make for a nice thought, but the lack of a DLC and software would leave us no better off? DFI/Fast/big stuff as well as the factory programs are all supplied with DLC and software. I've always hit the fatory limitations with large injectors/high boost applications,But you can make some nice changes around milder combos.

What is your reference to "DLC"?

And we still don't know that the stock ECU doesn't come with software (although that would be pressing it). Keep in mind that a fully open ECU can still read the stock 02 input without issue, it merely has less restrictions on injector modulation if larger air volume is realized.

I am not suggesting that no additional work will be required beyond air intake and exhaust mods - but it would be worth the c-notes (to me) if I could do air and exhaust mods without re-programming. This is easily achieved if a wideband-aware ECU is fed the data. Of course, it requires a wideband 02 sensor as well.

I'm really, and I mean REALLY, struggling between the ECU and the carbon fiber intakes... I'm leaning towards the ECU.

Data Link Cable (some form supplied with all systems)

I have tuned with all of the systems that I listed as well as factory Ford and GM PCM's.(All auto/no bike) I had 2 Ducati's and they were nice enough to set you up with Termi's and a race ECU for $2500.00 so I never needed any other mod's.
I'm with you on what can be done and the price of $850.00 does fall in line, I't would be nice as I am working on the exhaust system now, but I have till spring to work it all out.

blueta71 wrote:


Wow ... now THAT was just too easy!

Thanks man ... it made me laugh at myself that I missed it! Although your response is predicated on if ... and that is a HUGE if ... the Star accessory ECU comes with software, and is programmable by a terminal (PC, MAC, etc). Otherwise, no need for a "DLC" -

My experience is that Ford is more forgiving than GM for ECU ( ok - it really IS called ECM) programming ... Japanese are the hardest on the planet. AEM spent millions developing an open ECM for hot Jap models - most "tuners" just run piggy-backs (akin to a Dyno-Jet PC-xxx for bikes).

I'll remain hopeful at this point. Does anyone have contacts at Star for me to find out?

Maxxer

vmaxxer wrote:



Hey Rich,

I don't know that much about the electronic side of things, but I will say that I was thinking along the same lines about the Race ECU. I know that Oliver has been looking into a mod that removes the speed limiter, but I was thinking there is NO WAY the race ECU Star is offering will only remove the limiter. It would have to do many things in addition to removing the speed limiter, otherwise they wouldn't be replacing the ECU. In my opinion they would have offered a chip replacement if it was that simple.

Rick

That module IS less than $10 out of China. Trust me, and every byte. of information can be dumped. If there were a larger customer base, it would be cloned.

I am wondering why Yamaha has zero information on this thing. I think that they would want to sell these things, and to sell them, the customer kinda needs to know more about it than the price. I know better than to go ask the local dealer... they had the "deer in the headlights" look when I told them I wanted to pre-order a Vmax.... like they didn't realize that Star was making it yet. So I don't expect any information on accesories from them yet, if ever. Thank goodness for this forum and website.